PF surrogates attack church mother bodies at NGOCC public discussion

Some stakeholders at the NGOCC organised public discussion forum on Friday lambasted the Church as they accused them of being antagonists who had vested interests that had stalled the dialogue process.

Drama characterized the discussion as scores of stakeholders took turns in questioning the three Church Mother Bodies neutrality seeing that they had taken a stance against government long before the Bill was taken to parliament.

The NGOCC organised a public discussion forum which was held at Kapingila House were they invited the three Church Mother Bodies representatives ZCCB’s Fr Cleophus Lungu, Rev Pukuta Mwanza of EFZ and CCZ, Political Scientist Dr Alex Ngoma and TIZ Executive Director Reuben Lifuka to discuss the way forward on the National Dialogue Bill after it went through in Parliament on Tuesday.

Dr Alex Ng’oma who explained that he was invited at last minute seemed to open a Pandora’s box when from the onset bluntly told off the Church that the dialogue process had stalled because of their antagonistic behavior.

He told the audience that the delays in the dialogue process should be blamed on the Church who had departed from their role after being identified as a neutral body to Chair the process after stakeholders had agreed.

Dr Ng’oma noted that after inviting the Church to Chair the dialogue process, stakeholders were surprised that instead of Chairing, the three Church Mother Bodies embarked on a parallel dialogue process as opposed to sticking to the terms of reference as dictated by stakeholders who invited them to Chair.

“…but then we have a challenge ladies and gentlemen, as far as we understand the issues and the challenge is that when you are invited to come and chair proceedings you must stick to your terms of the invitation, I think that is where the problem has been. A lot of people in this country feel that the Church in a sense has actually departed from the terms of the invitation and that is why the dialogue has actually stalled I am here to be educated by the church but that is my conclusion that if the Church should stick to the terms of the invitation we would have surely been able to move forward.

“The Church has actually tried to chart it’s own agenda and roadmap to the point of inviting others to participate. The Church has actually tried to suggest certain things when it is actually just supposed to be Chairing. So if the church can accept only to chair as a neutral entity this process will not stall anymore we will move forward but the Church has got it’s own road map and I think that is part of the problem. I think going forward the Church must abandon it’s newly developed agenda and stick to the terms of the invitation.”

In an apparent dig at his fellow panelists Dr Ngoma also said individuals should stop portraying a know it all behavior saying “there is a problem in this country because some of our brothers and sisters in this country think they are right all the time and other people are wrong all the time.”

He said people should stop rushing to the media every time they disagree with government but instead engage government on what they think should be done as opposed to screaming on anthills as that doesn’t resolve any thing. 

In response to the accusations Rev Mwanza said the Church cannot be invited by individuals to deal with what he termed as their God given mandate of dealing with national matters.

“You must know that the church does not get it’s mandate to intervene in a national matters from any individual. Even in the years past, historical times the Church was not invited by anybody to bring about unity and reconciliation in this country. The church has got it’s feet on the ground and the Church has got spiritual ears to hear, it has spiritual eyes to see. It’s like you assume that the Church doesn’t know what is is happening and so you must go and tell the church what is happening and therefore the Church must come up alive and do something,” he said.

Meanwhile Fr. Lungu complained that the Church’s input had not been considered when drafting the National Dialogue Bill.

He said the Church was surprised that their input had been ignored even when they have a constituency that they represent.

He said the Church cannot be disregarded in the manner it has been as it had done it’s own consultations with stakeholders whose input should be considered.

He also expressed concern that the Bill did not touch on PART 3(THREE) of the Constitution which he said was of paramount importance as it deals with the Bill of Rights.

And some stakeholders told the Church to put it’s house in order before it embarks on reconciling waring parties.

“….in our view as GOP Rev Sichilima was a pivotal member of the Church Mother Bodies as President for CCZ and part of the entire journey of dialogue and since his resignation the Church has not said anything, they haven’t mentioned anything because he had raised issues of lack of integrity and compromise and the rest of you have just been quite, what is the Church saying so before you play that important role of reconciling whoever you think is in conflict please reconcile yourselves,” Daniel Kapungwe of the Golden Progressive Party (GOP). And Governance Activist Isaac Mwanza said the issues raised in the dialogue Bill were identified by stakeholders during meetings with the Commonwealth.

“..it’s a national dialogue bill because one, the issues were agreed already which we are going to dialogue on. In Siavonga when the UPND were asked to say can we do reconciliation first so that we go to dialogue later they said no, they refused in all uncertain terms! We want dialogue on the Constitution, on judicial reforms, on the electoral laws these are the issues that were identified and who identified these issues? It was Prof Gambari during the first meetings that we had with civil society and everybody, so we should not be surprised with the Bill that national dialogue is focusing on the reforms.

“I agree with the Church that there is need for reconciliation, but when they met here HH and President Lungu we are sure they should have reconciled them, they should have started the process of reconciling them, these are the two who are fighting, I doubt if they are fighting with any other person. Identify the culprits who are fighting and bring them to the table allow these processes of the Constitution, the Public Order ACT let us deal with them systematically.

“My last point is that why we are delaying in this process is because we want to politicise the whole process of the Constitution! Everybody wants to become a constitutional expert. That is were the problem is! So if we can agree that this is the only way forward with this bill, let us put our personal egos aside let us find a common ground, the objections which were noted by the Church, CSOs out of 9 issues 7 were addressed by parliament so why are we politicising the process which should be able to deliver results,” he said.

Contributing to the debate, Francis Chipili of Zambian Governance Initiative Platform quizzed the Church on whether they were seeking earthly recognition as opposed to heavenly recognition.

“….they talked about tolerance, from the way the church has been conducting itself, the church hasn’t tolerated ZCID, ever since the church came on the platform it has been very antagonistic with the ZCID. The Bishop here was telling us that the church is very surprised because they were not recognised when government came up with the framework of the bill my question is is the church seeking earthly recognition as opposed to heavenly recognition?”

Meanwhile the discussions almost degenerated into chaos after Samuel Mulafulafu in his submission described politicians as thieves who cannot be trusted with the process of refining the Constitution.

Mulafulafu said if the process was entrusted in the hands of politicians the process would amount to nothing as politicians were thieves who would only save their interest a comment which did not sit well with the audience which included politicians who were present as they demanded that he withdraws he derogatory and disrespectful comment especially coming from a leader of Civil Society who should be non aligned on the issue.